J. EDGAR HOOVER’S SAUCER CRASH SECRETS
(originally published April 2011)
It is said that FBI Director J. Edgar Hoover could find out “anything about everything.” His deep and unrelenting investigation of the secret activities of politicians, military, celebrities and foreign leaders is legendary. When determined to do so, he could learn the facts about any event or subject of interest. His compulsion to find out about such hidden things was insatiable and often even bordered on the perverse. But did Hoover’s interest in “things concealed” extend to ET? Did Hoover indeed discover the truth about the retrieval of crashed craft from another world? New information – and a fresh examination of a body of relevant FBI documents from decades ago – says “Yes.” And the buried clues that others have missed about the Director and his investigation of crashed saucers are now uncovered here.
THE TELLING DOCUMENTS
Four FBI documents in particular are key to understanding J. Edgar Hoover and the crashed saucer mystery. Some of these documents may be familiar to UFO enthusiasts. The FBI has now initiated Vault – an online searchable document retrieval for researchers and media. This has led to recent online discussion about of one of these documents.
However, a closer and comprehensive look at these FBI documents reveals details that are not readily apparent on first review. When we analyze the FBI agents and military officials that are mentioned within these documents – as well as the documents’ timing and sequence and their overall context – we are led to one stunning conclusion: The Director knew that he was not being told the whole story behind the tales of crashed saucers. Fiercely independent, Hoover find out the truth about what really happened in the New Mexico desert on his own terms.
THE ROSWELL TELEX – JULY 8 1947
Wyly's Roswell Telex
(click to open larger)
On July 8 1947, an FBI Special Agent named Percy Wyly authored a convoluted Telex message marked “Urgent. ” It was directed to J. Edgar Hoover and to the SAC (Special Agent in Charge) in Cincinnati. It is the only document from the week of the crash occurrence that has ever been released through FOIA that relates directly to the Roswell incident.
In summary, Hoover is informed that the “disc and balloon” were “being transported by special plane for examination” to Wright Field. Wyly is strange in his wording (with information related to him by the Army Air Force) and continues that it was reported to have resembled “a high altitude weather balloon with a radar reflector – but that “telephonic conversation had not borne out that belief.” Very curiously, this last line is omitted entirely from the 1990s Air Force Roswell Report debunking the event.
Agent Wyly was conveying information that had been provided to him by Major Edwin M. Kirton of the Army Air Force Intelligence (of the 8th Army Air Force) at Ft. Worth, TX. Kirton was one of General Roger Ramey’s key officers. Publicly Kirton debunked the incident, telling the Dallas Morning News that the Roswell crash was of a weather balloon (while telling Wyly that it was not). Kirton lied to the press that
the flight was cancelled to Wright Field (it was not). Kirton’s name (misspelled “Curtan” in the original teletype) was purposely deleted from the original 1976 FOIA released document thus effectively preventing his questioning by researchers. Kirton passed in 1992 at age 83.
When Wyly was reached by a researcher in 1981, he did not wish to speak about the Telex that he sent to Hoover. He said, “I’ve had no unexplained fires in my garage and I have had no men in dark suits at my doorstep. I’m enjoying my retirement and I was to keep it that way. I have nothing to say”. Wyly was loyal to Hoover even in the winter of his life. Wyly had been well rewarded for his years of silent service to the Hoover. After his FBI service, I have learned, Percy Wyly was appointed Director of Security for Sandia Laboratories. Wyly died in 2000 at age 90.
There is much more to the intriguing “Wyly story” which this author has recently discovered which will be released at a later date.
What is also very interesting about this FBI teletype is that it indicates that the results of the study of the Roswell crash debris would be forwarded to the FBI’s Cincinnati office – and of course to Director Hoover. But incredibly, no documents have ever surfaced to indicate that this ever happened. I am certain that when Hoover was apprised of the Roswell crash with such sparse but tantalizing information as provided by his agent Percy Wyly, that it instigated Hoover’s strong interest and his intense investigation. It is inconceivable that Hoover was not informed – or that he did not try to find out on his own – the true nature of the crashed disc at Roswell.
There is simply no doubt whatsoever that additional documents exist about this – and that the US Government is deliberately hiding them – or that Hoover himself had private papers that related to his investigation of the matter. Why would the teletype state unequivocally that the results of the crash analysis would be sent to the FBI, but that no documents have been located to show that such Roswell results were indeed sent to Hoover?
This author is initiating a FOIA to have these promised crash analysis results to Hoover released to the public. Hoover was told that he would get them and we should be able to find out if he did.
A REQUEST FROM THE PENTAGON – JULY 10 1947
Mere days after the UFO crash reported at Roswell, the Pentagon was requesting the assistance of Hoover’s office in helping solve the crashed saucer mystery. FBI Agent D.M. Ladd indicated to Hoover that on July 9 1947, Brigadier General George Schulgen of Pentagon Intelligence personally discussed with a Special Agent of the FBI (name deleted under FOIA) the possibility of assistance from the FBI in investigating the flying disc phenomena.
Ladd indicates to Hoover that he did not believe that the Bureau should offer such assistance because the majority of “alleged discs reported found have been pranks.” This document can be viewed here, both as a scanned image, and as transcribed text:
July 10 1947, scanned
(click to open)
July 10 1947, transcribed
(click to open)
Clyde Tolson, Associate Director of the FBI, received Ladd’s memo, read and considered it, and annotated on it his disagreement with Ladd, saying: “I think we should do this” – meaning of course that he believes that the Bureau should consider investigating with the Pentagon.
Hoover qualifies his agreement with Tolson, but cautions him in a handwritten notation:
“I would do it but before agreeing to it we must insist upon full access to discs recovered. For instance in the La. [Sw.?] case the Army grabbed it & would not let us have it for cursory examination.”
Bear in mind that just a few days prior, Hoover had been promised by the military the results of analysis of the Roswell UFO crash debris, according to the Roswell Telex detailed above. Ladd likely did not know this. And Hoover was awaiting those results.
Some maintain that the “La.” in the Memo stands for “Louisiana” and that it refers to a UFO hoax that had taken place there. However, it is entirely unclear that this is the intended meaning of Hoover’s abbreviation. It could just as easily be interpreted as “Sw” for Southwest (as in NM), or as “LA” for “Los Alamos” (in NM, and where some craft parts could have conceivably been taken), or even “Los Angeles” (residence of author Frank Scully, discussed later). Hoover’s writing is simply – and unfortunately – unclear on this. What is known is that the modern two-letter abbreviated codes for the states within the US were originated by the US Post Office in 1963, over 15 years after the date of this document. If the USG did not officially use ‘La’ or ‘La.’ to signify Louisiana, would Hoover?
And the Shreveport, LA hoax occurring on July 7 that some feel Hoover was referring to in the Memo was merely of a 16” aluminum plate. And contrary to what skeptics maintain, documents show that indeed an FBI agent was informed of this Shreveport incident and that this was promptly relayed to the New Orleans FBI office. I am certain that Hoover did not want “full access” to a 16” pie plate! And Hoover certainly knew, based on the Telex from his agent Percy Wyly, that such disc crashes were hardly all pranks! The other issue is that Hoover was historically very precise when referring to locations. He would have more likely said “in the Shreveport case” rather than the “Louisiana” case.
Tolson and Hoover no doubt continued their dialog privately on the crashed saucer matter: Should they pursue this investigation on their own – or should they cooperate with the Pentagon? As we learn in the next section, the two ultimately decided not to move forward in working with the military on the matter. Rather, they would trust no one but themselves and their own on this.
But perhaps the most intriguing part about this document is the individual that had requested Hoover’s assistance on crashed saucer investigation – Brigadier General Schulgen.
Oct 28 1947
(click to open)
Schulgen had drafted a Secret Memo directed to some of his key officers on October 28 1947 – just three months after the Roswell crash and after he had reached out to Hoover. This Memo included a section about flying discs entitled “Items of Construction.” In the Memo, Schulgen instructs his officers to be aware of flying objects and their material composition. He specifically notes the “unusual fabrication methods used to achieve extreme light weight” and that the material is of “a composite construction using various combinations of metals.” The obvious elephant in the room is that one could only determine such intermetallic construction by observing a crashed one! And the description of such material sounds distinctly Roswellian! That Schulgen was the key military contact making the inquiry of assistance to Hoover is extraordinary in light of this. You can view the full Schulgen Memo by clicking the image to the left.
I assure you that Schulgen, who wanted Hoover’s assistance back in July, was not referring to such things as aluminum pie plates found in Shreveport!
HOOVER SAYS ”NO” TO THE PENTAGON - SEPTEMBER 27, 1947
On September 27 1947, Hoover wrote to the Pentagon a somewhat contemptuous letter informing them that he was discontinuing any FBI agent investigation of crashed discs. He characterized such crashes as those of “ash cans, toilet seats and what not.” He would defer any such investigations of that type to the Air Force. His attitude in his rebuking reply to the military is almost smarmy. It is as if he knew that they were trying to “play” him and that they have not given him “full access.”
You can view this document by clicking the image to the left.
And of course this is not Hoover’s true sentiment about the matter whatsoever. Hoover simply did not trust the military and did not wish to work with them. He knew that he had not been given the “real deal” on the crash at Roswell. His agent Percy Wyly relayed that Hoover would be getting the crash debris results. But there appears to be a disconnect on this:
Was Hoover informed that it was the crash of a Project Mogul balloon (as the Air Force now maintains)? If so, why would Hoover characterize such crashes as those of “ash cans and
Sept 27 1947
(click to open)
what not” in his letter back to the Pentagon? If Hoover was told that Roswell was resultant from Mogul, why would he not want to join in on the recovery of other such devices tested on US soil and intended to be used against the Communists that he so hated?
Or had Hoover never received anything back from the Air Force? Was he left to rely only on press reports of the crash and on his agent Wyly’s precious few bits of information that were obtained from Ramey’s lackey, Major Kirton? If this was so, you can be certain that Hoover would have pulled in his most trusted agents to find out the truth about the UFO crash at Roswell.
It would not be at all like Hoover to simply acquiesce to media and military about the most momentous event in history – a crashed flying saucer! Hoover no doubt had believed that such investigation was within his prerogative. His mission was to investigate intrusions and transgressions that crossed states – and that’s certainly what a crashed saucer would have done. Hoover often viewed other departments of intelligence and military as places which he should investigate – not places with which he would cooperate.
As we will see in the following section, Hoover did in fact maintain interest in such crashed disc matters despite what he told the Pentagon. And his closest agents were informing him on crashed saucer stories three years later!
HOOVER INFORMED OF CRASHED DISCS - MARCH 22, 1950
"Flying Saucers" memo,
Mar 22 1950
(click to open)
An FBI Memo dated March 22, 1950 has been the subject of much recent online debate. In it, FBI Agent Guy Hottel explains to Hoover that “an Air Force investigator” source had informed him that three flying discs had prior been recovered in New Mexico. The source indicates that this may have been due to the effect of radar on the craft. Each disc had three occupants that were three feet tall. Seeking the Director’s guidance, Hottel indicates that he has not taken any further action on the matter.
Despite the recent flurry of discussion about this document (due to its recent inclusion in the FBI Vault repository), the fact is that this document was released in 1977 under FOIA. The organization CUFON (Computer UFO Network) was the first to publicly circulate the document in an online posting over their rudimentary network in 1986.
You can view this document by clicking the image to the left.
Today it appears that many dismiss the document because they believe that it clearly refers to Frank Scully’s Aztec saucer crash hoax story, also related in 1950. But of course Scully’s book was published in September of 1950 and the Memo is dated in March, a half-year prior. In response, those who still dismiss the Memo say that the story that Agent Hottel related to
Hoover can be traced to a lecture on crashed saucers that was given by Aztec hoax perpetrator and Scully confidant Silas Newton at a Denver school early that year. A small Kansas City newspaper had recounted some of the details of the lecture as well.
But looking more closely at the details of the two accounts we see significant differences between the FBI'a Guy Hottel memo and the Scully Aztec story. These differences are very fundamental and they are difficult to reconcile as referring to the same event:
In Scully’s story, the size of the crashed discs are reported specifically as 99.9 feet, 72 feet and 36 feet in diameter. In the FBI Memo, the discs are instead reported as being “about 50 feet in diameter".
In Scully’s story, there were 34 men that were found in the discs. In the FBI memo, there were only 9 beings found (three within each craft).
In Scully’s story, the crash victims were dressed in a style that was reminiscent of the “style of the 1890s.” In the FBI memo, the occupants were wearing tight flight suits.
In Scully’s story, the crash victims are referred to as “men.” In the FBI memo, the crash victims are referred to only as being “of human shape.”
So it is evident that the size of the discs do not remotely match, the number of crash victims reported differs by over three and a half times, and the description of their appearance is markedly different.
In an October 13 1947 teletype to his Special Agent in Charge in Los Angeles, Hoover directs him: “You are instructed to discreetly determine through appropriate sources of your office whether Frank Scully…is identical to the same Frank Scully who has been actively involved in communist activities since the late 1930s.” This document shows that Hoover knew who Scully was well before the Aztec crash story. He already had his eyes on Scully – and Hoover would not have confused his hoax story with other such accounts as the one related by his agent Hottel. And Hoover knew that Roswell had nothing to do with Aztec. One really happened…one did not.
The timing of this communication is interesting too. It was sent to the FBI’s LA office just a month after the publication of Scully’s Behind the Flying Saucers. Why did Hoover feel so threatened by Scully's's hoax story that he would want to nail him as a Communist again? Mrs. Frank Scully related in letters to former researcher William Steinman that her husband was later harassed by FBI agents after the book’s publication. And if Hoover knew about the Scully hoax story way back in March, why did he wait until October to inquire about him and his Communist affiliations?
And what is of special interest is this:
Remember that Hoover had told the military back in September of 1947 that he did not want to participate with the Pentagon in investigating such crash cases. But here we are three years on and we see that Hoover is receiving details on just such events! Hoover had lied to the Pentagon. Though he had told the Pentagon that he wanted no part of it – what Hoover had really meant was that he did not want any part of working with the military on such UFO crash matters. He did not trust them. He wanted to work only with people that he could trust on this, his own people. Perhaps after Roswell he did not believe the results of the crash analysis that the military had provided to him. Or maybe he never did receive the crash analysis results from Wright that were promised to him in the July 8 1947 Telex.
Who could Hoover trust on such investigations? He could trust his long-time friends and co-workers Special Agent Guy Hottel and FBI Associate Director Clyde Tolson:
Tolson (who had agreed with Hoover that they should investigate crashed discs) was Hoover’s #2 for decades, and the person with whom he shared living quarters.
Guy Hottel (the author of the controversial 1950 crashed disc memo) was one of Hoover’s favored agents and acted as Hoover’s personal bodyguard. Hoover had entrusted Guy to perform some of the most discreet investigations the agency had ever conducted. This is because as early as the 1930s the three of them – Hottel, Hoover and Tolson – would do things such as going to Miami and staying together at hotels to gamble and socialize. Tolson and Hottel had even roomed together in the 1920s at college.
It is telling that Hottel and Tolson are linked to private discussion of crashed discs with Hoover – and that they are linked to other of Hoover’s most private interests. This ‘trio of trust’ could keep secrets, as well as find them out.
HOOVER’S SECRET INVESTIGATIONS OF CRASHED SAUCERS
Hoover was characterized by many as relentless in his pursuit, fiercely patriotic and a highly secretive and suspicious individual. Taking into his confidence two of his most trusted agents, Hoover most certainly confided to them his concerns that the crash of a strange craft at New Mexico was of vital importance. He explained to them that he did not believe that the military had told him the truth about the event. Hoover no doubt dug deep on the matter and covered his tracks well as he did. But the trails of evidence that remain, lead us closer to an understanding of J. Edgar Hoover’s crashed saucer secrets.